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Eudoxia

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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:04 pm

Paradosi wrote:
Eudo, it was discussed somewhere in the thread. Premise was that an ignorant man couldn't be educated since his ignorance would be the antithesis to it, only he can do it himself. So for now, we are for scientists... ala Technocracy.

Crisis, we can start with a corporation then branch out. It's not considered independence then.

Yeah, but some people are ignorant because... Well, I dunno. Because they are, I suppose.

But others are ignorant because, say, they have been forced to be (Creationist parents lawlz) or were given no access to information. People who are smart and curious but weren't educated in science, and now want to learn more.

Those people, plus the scientists and the everyday kind of intellectual guy, are the ones I think we should target.

Leaving behind the ignorants and taking in the pseudo-ignorant or misinformed.
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Eudoxia

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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:06 pm

PubR wrote:
deminerd wrote:
Ok then how do we fabricate the windmills and the generators for the windmills? If we are going to be distilling seawater and fishing our location will have to be located somewhere close to the sea, we will need to take storms into account when choosing our location.

I'm sure we could just steal some land from Africa but... I don't think anyone here wants that.

Antartica, access to water ice and room to build an Antartic Ice Gun to send stuff into space.

Plus I don't think anybody will detect us there, or even bother. But the conditions are harsh (Fun Fact: It's easier to live on the Moon than to live in Antartica) so we'll have to be totally self-sufficient.
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deminerd




PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:09 pm

PubR wrote:
deminerd wrote:
Ok then how do we fabricate the windmills and the generators for the windmills? If we are going to be distilling seawater and fishing our location will have to be located somewhere close to the sea, we will need to take storms into account when choosing our location.

I'm sure we could just steal some land from Africa but... I don't think anyone here wants that.

How exactly does one steal land in Africa? Also how do we make the windmills, or more specifically how do we make the windmills on our own? Do keep in mind that windmills are more complicated than they look especially big ones. The wind often doesn't apply itself equally over the entire blade, resulting in vibrations that must be actively damped to prevent the windmill from breaking down.
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PubR
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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:11 pm

Eudoxia wrote:
Paradosi wrote:
Eudo, it was discussed somewhere in the thread. Premise was that an ignorant man couldn't be educated since his ignorance would be the antithesis to it, only he can do it himself. So for now, we are for scientists... ala Technocracy.

Crisis, we can start with a corporation then branch out. It's not considered independence then.

Yeah, but some people are ignorant because... Well, I dunno. Because they are, I suppose.

But others are ignorant because, say, they have been forced to be (Creationist parents lawlz) or were given no access to information. People who are smart and curious but weren't educated in science, and now want to learn more.

Those people, plus the scientists and the everyday kind of intellectual guy, are the ones I think we should target.

Leaving behind the ignorants and taking in the pseudo-ignorant or misinformed.

We want to teach those who want to learn. We meant the ignorant as in "This is stupid! How will this be useful to me at all?"

Eudoxia wrote:
PubR wrote:
deminerd wrote:
Ok then how do we fabricate the windmills and the generators for the windmills? If we are going to be distilling seawater and fishing our location will have to be located somewhere close to the sea, we will need to take storms into account when choosing our location.

I'm sure we could just steal some land from Africa but... I don't think anyone here wants that.

Antartica, access to water ice and room to build an Antartic Ice Gun to send stuff into space.

Plus I don't think anybody will detect us there, or even bother. But the conditions are harsh (Fun Fact: It's easier to live on the Moon than to live in Antartica) so we'll have to be totally self-sufficient.

Antarctica? I like it. You get a raise.
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Inox




PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:11 pm

Paradosi wrote:
We still would have to decide on what type of corporation standing we'd have to go with. Solar, Nanotech, Water Distillation etc. I might make a poll later on. Check out the other threads that have been posted for now.

I'd go for water distillation, since there's probably going to be a great demand in that field in the future, but it really depends on the specialties of the scientists composing our organization.
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Eudoxia

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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:12 pm

deminerd wrote:
PubR wrote:
deminerd wrote:
Ok then how do we fabricate the windmills and the generators for the windmills? If we are going to be distilling seawater and fishing our location will have to be located somewhere close to the sea, we will need to take storms into account when choosing our location.

I'm sure we could just steal some land from Africa but... I don't think anyone here wants that.

How exactly does one steal land in Africa? Also how do we make the windmills, or more specifically how do we make the windmills on our own? Do keep in mind that windmills are more complicated than they look especially big ones. The wind often doesn't apply itself equally over the entire blade, resulting in vibrations that must be actively damped to prevent the windmill from breaking down.



And:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconventional_wind_turbines

Some sound relatively easy to make.

Also, on Antartica, with flat areas the wind can accumulate to some pretty awesome speed. Using solar, however, is not an option due to the long night. Unless, of course, that you find a Peak of Eternal Light.
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Paradosi
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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:16 pm

I meant the ignorant, as in the ones who don't have the capacity to understand/learn. Those who are misguided and pseudo-ignorant are a completely different thing. We must be still be careful about such ideologies, most people find it hard to accept that the world isn't equal.

While technocracy has those who are of greater intellect, and those who are of medium intellect. Each mind works toward a superior goal, scientific progress, and cultural advancement. Sadly, these days most of the people are truly ignorant, not just pseudo-ignorant.
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PubR
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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:26 pm

Paradosi wrote:
I meant the ignorant, as in the ones who don't have the capacity to understand/learn. Those who are misguided and pseudo-ignorant are a completely different thing. We must be still be careful about such ideologies, most people find it hard to accept that the world isn't equal.

While technocracy has those who are of greater intellect, and those who are of medium intellect. Each mind works toward a superior goal, scientific progress, and cultural advancement. Sadly, these days however, most of the people are truly ignorant, not just pseudo-ignorant.

We'll have to trend carefully with that. We'll still have riff-raff in our nation, we'll have to sell inequality as a good thing for society. That shouldn't be hard, we just have to keep our nation out of the UN so that we don't have everyone else influencing what we do.

The truly ignorant can stay in their home countries, we've got no time for lazy bastards!
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deminerd




PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:27 pm

Eudoxia wrote:

Some sound relatively easy to make.

There's no such thing as easy, especially when you want to be self-sufficient in Antarctica. So how will we make the permanent magnets(often require exotic elements like neodymium, but we might be able to make do) and large coils of copper wire/superconducting wire(Antarctica is relatively cold)?

Also how do you deal with ice accumulation on the blades? Though wind turbines do have a proven track record in Antarctica.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=wind-power-in-antarctica-2009-04-07
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Paradosi
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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:29 pm

PubR wrote:
We'll have to trend carefully with that. We'll still have riff-raff in our nation, we'll have to sell inequality as a good thing for society. That shouldn't be hard, we just have to keep our nation out of the UN so that we don't have everyone else influencing what we do.

The truly ignorant can stay in their home countries, we've got no time for lazy bastards!

If we are first starting as a corporation, well UN can't do much about those. Once we turn into a sovereign nation however, all bets are off. And yes inequality is a hard thing to bypass these days, however we aren't just going to be taking everyone. Intellect is a requirement.
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Inox




PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:34 pm

For now we should advertise our project carefully among those with similar interests, people intelligent enough to actually be interested, with interest and capability in science. But not close-minded as to think we are complete idiots.
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Paradosi
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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:00 pm

Getting quite late on this end, going to go to bed and brainstorm more when I wake up. Thread is still up I think, so spreading the world there would be interesting, through fail trolls generally tend to set in after the main conversations are done.
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Crisis589




PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:08 pm

We can advertise more on /sci/ tomorrow.
For now, I sleep.
Peace everybody
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detane




PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 5:21 pm

Dutchfag here
Ok, my first post...

For water, we should begin easy, Antarctica has more then enough land ice we could melt to drink. This is all fresh water, so there don't have to be distilleries, at least in the beginning.

I thought I might help you in 3d modeling, but it would take a crapload of time to get anything off the ground. Are we still thinking about this shipidea or would something stationary be better? At least it would be easier to build something on land. The antarctic sea has lots of icebergs which can be quite a pain in in the ass. Titanic was unsinkable, remember?

Another thing we should consider is growing food. Plants don't grow in the dark, and the south-pole has 6 months of eternal darkness. There must be a way around this, maybe using artificial light, or just by importing other food, or perhaps genetic modification, but a solution must be found.
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Limecat

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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:13 pm

Hey guys. I'm also from that thread. Realistically, I don't think anything will come out of this but a sense of community and maybe online gatherings to engineer our own shit.
Optimistically, I'd like a technocracy and hope something epic happens.

Lets engineer some shit. Pool our knowledge. Surely we can do something, naive as that sounds. Water purification sounds good. And renewable energy.
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Inox




PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:23 am

detane wrote:

Another thing we should consider is growing food. Plants don't grow in the dark, and the south-pole has 6 months of eternal darkness. There must be a way around this, maybe using artificial light, or just by importing other food, or perhaps genetic modification, but a solution must be found.

If we live near the sea like in that picture| we won't have much difficulties with food, we could fish (but not too much, we don't want fishes becoming extinct). We'll also need some vegetables and stuff because it's healthy, so we should have greenhouses, artificial light would help on those.
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Paradosi
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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:46 am

Food isn't much of a concern now though, it would be once we are actually a sovereign entity, but food can easily be imported for a small group of people. As for Antarctica... hmm countries have claimed it yes, but the claims are nothing more than pious words. A corporation with enough resources to do research could easily do what they want there. Only problem is the cold, and uneven land mass.

Then there is Siberia, It's in a country, but Russia only slightly cares about it. It's too large to monitor properly, and has tons of resources/fresh water.

As for realism well, we'd have to start small. Build up a decent community for a time, and go from there probably. Technocracy is a loose term, and we'd have to better classify it, as well as the core basics. Also as for attaining resources one thing we haven't talked about is outer-space mining. Asteroids and the planets have useful resources that could be gathered and processed. Fairly too early for that though, but maybe.
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PubR
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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:13 am

We need to get the basic terms and goals down. The second thread for our technocracy on /sci/ is still up and everyone had lots of conflicting ideas about what we should do and what our society will be about.
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Crisis589




PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:13 am

PubR wrote:
Paradosi wrote:
I meant the ignorant, as in the ones who don't have the capacity to understand/learn. Those who are misguided and pseudo-ignorant are a completely different thing. We must be still be careful about such ideologies, most people find it hard to accept that the world isn't equal.

While technocracy has those who are of greater intellect, and those who are of medium intellect. Each mind works toward a superior goal, scientific progress, and cultural advancement. Sadly, these days however, most of the people are truly ignorant, not just pseudo-ignorant.

We'll have to trend carefully with that. We'll still have riff-raff in our nation, we'll have to sell inequality as a good thing for society. That shouldn't be hard, we just have to keep our nation out of the UN so that we don't have everyone else influencing what we do.

The truly ignorant can stay in their home countries, we've got no time for lazy bastards!
For some reason, that just doesn't sit right with me...
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Blue
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PostSubject: Models   Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:46 am

I come from /3/, I heard something about you guys needing 3d models for your new society? Could anyone fill me in?
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Limecat

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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:47 am

Wow the technocratic discussion sure died off Sad
No thred even on /sci/
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Paradosi
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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:22 am

Aye... I tried making one, but trolls started trolling everywhere.
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Limecat

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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:46 am

Yeah but even this thread has died D:
What are we going to do, gentlemen?!
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Paradosi
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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:48 am

I'm writing a short article... well more of a description of what I see Technocracy as. It could be built upon and such.

Also to the person asking about 3d model, we were just looking if anyone could design interesting concept/design art.
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Limecat

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PostSubject: Re: Technocracy   Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:54 am

Sweet
I'm curious as to what sort of ideas about howe you'd form a completely separate (and likely small. it doesn't matter) nation?
Someone also brought up social policies and stuff. How would the nation deal with that?


Also, people with civil and materials engineering backgrounds can build the structure in appropriate engineering software fuck yeah.
Too bad it'd take w hile to build with the means we use.
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